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Hugga_Bear
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Joined: 01 May 2008
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Aupmanyav wrote: | You do not have to replace Brahman with atoms. There are really no solid-ball atoms. What is there is only force fields. The energy, Brahman, sure has its intrinsic power and consciousness, that is why one photon disappears in a double-slit experiment, and no interference happens, if the other photon is observed. Brahman is 'neti, neti' (not this, not that), it is neither holy nor unholy. Such attributes do not apply to Brahman, that is a construct of human mind. Brahman is beyond that. Would you call electricity or light as holy or unholy? It is neither exclusively energy nor exclusively substance.
It is strange that you do not see Brahman's existence when everything in the universe is constituted by it (please note that I have edited my last post, a bad habit). I am an avowed atheist, only that GodisSanta (who himself is an atheist) does not understand my position. Brahman is not a God. |
Ah, now I understand.
"The universe is a web, everything is connected, if you pull on one string all the others are affected."
So Brahman IS everything? And simultaneously nothing. An interesting concept, but it still lacks any evidence and is as easily dismissable as any other religion.
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Aupmanyav
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 309
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Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hugga_Bear wrote: | | So Brahman IS everything? And simultaneously nothing. An interesting concept, but it still lacks any evidence and is as easily dismissable as any other religion. |
That is where hinduism differs from buddhism. Brahman IS everything, it IS NOT nothing. For evidence on this look into books of physics. Look into the experiments being conducted by atom-smashers and not in scriptures. If it is not science, it is not hinduism either.
Thanks, WickedTruth, at least there are a few who understand.
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"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman) |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12865
Local time: 1:17 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Wicked wrote: | | Aupmanyav~ I myself am a big fan of Indian philosophy, most of these western guys have no exposure to this stuff and generally go with the Abrahmaic concept of god. This stuff is kind of over their heads. You will be attacked, not because you are correct, but mainly most of these posters don't understand the things you are posting. Here in the US, the most common Hindu reference is the Simpon's shop keeper who worships Ganesh. |
Yeah, that's pretty much true. 
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Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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GodisSanta
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Joined: 17 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Aupmanyav wrote: | | Hugga_Bear wrote: | | So Brahman IS everything? And simultaneously nothing. An interesting concept, but it still lacks any evidence and is as easily dismissable as any other religion. |
That is where hinduism differs from buddhism. Brahman IS everything, it IS NOT nothing. For evidence on this look into books of physics. Look into the experiments being conducted by atom-smashers and not in scriptures. If it is not science, it is not hinduism either.
Thanks, WickedTruth, at least there are a few who understand. |
Ok a question for you Aupmanyav , I should be respectful because even though I think you are misguided, you know stuff, I apologize to you for being angry and frustrated and claiming that somehow you smoke something... and please don't smoke cigarettes, it is bad for you, the increased risk factors from heart disease to you name it has to do with smoking. Anyway, here is my question:
1) If brahman is the ultimate reality , then after you realize it, you do what? What do you do? thats it right? everything is brahman... so? you got work tomorrow? yes, that doesn't change , Do you still have to work hard, yes... that doesn't change, what changes? You are still facing problems in your life, what is so great about knowing everything is "Brahman".
Please don't tell me that you are "free from attachments" and therefore happy, because that would just be a lie. You are not free of your attachments, no one is, if you are married, you are not free of your "attachment to your wife" , and if you are a smoker, you are not free of your attachment to your smoking and if you are a doctor, you are not free of your attachment to the well being of your patients.
I guess what I am asking is, even after you realize everything is brahman, the attachment will still persist, so what does really change once you "realize" you are brahman.
And yes, Yoga vashista is a great book, I read it, it was a good read, but I totally disagree with whatever vashista tries to say to Rama and thats because of one reason and one reason only: All of vashista's stories that try to convey the "truth" about the infinite consciousness sound like they were fricking snatched out of twilight zone series, I mean come on! when have you heard of a crow talking? or a bird? or a virus meditating, it is all what we call in Hindi *BUCKVAS* , Voh Sabh Bakvas hai yaar!.  |
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Aupmanyav
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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GodisSanta, I am hardly ever angry, it is a useless emotion. I have been smoking for 42 years now. God (if there is one, or otherwise, chance) also will require a reason to snuff me out, I am only helping.
1. After realizing, I go on with my life, eat, shit, laugh, love, care. I am a retired person. I just enjoy the fruits of my labours. The great thing is that my mind is not troubled by unanswered questions. I have my 'dharma' to my mother, my wife, son and daughter, grandchildren, relatives, society, country, and to the world in general. One does not have to have attachment to fulfill duties.
Lord Krishna says in Geeta - 2:48 :
Yogasthah kuru karmani, sangam tyaktva, Dhananjaya;
Siddhi-asiddhyoh samo bhutva, samatvam yoga uchyate.
(Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment; considering success or failure as same, such equanimity is called yoga.
I believe in consciousness of Brahman, i.e., energy. This is what makes one photon not to arrive in a double-slit experiment, when the other photon is observed. I have not read Yoga-Vasishtha, I do not need to, I understand the mystery.
edited: as far as it can be known in the present age.
_________________
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman) |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12865
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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GodisSanta, any enlightenment is only the beginning that leads to wisdom and a life of happiness. A life without wisdom is a life without happiness. There's a book you might find interesting, it's about enlightenment and what to do in the world afterwards, it's called, "After the Ecstasy is the laundry." My teacher constantly stresses that we have to take our practice into the world.
I'd like to redefine "attachment", because you're using it in a very loose way. That's understandable, because unfortunately it has different connotations for westerners, even though according to the dictionary it's the most accurate word. Attachment is the unwillingness to let go of something. You suffer when you refuse to accept the way things are, and wish for them to be different. Some things can be changed, and some cannot, either way, you have to accept reality for what it is, not what you wish it were. If your mother dies, and you wish she weren't, that is attachment, and it will only bring suffering into your life. Be careful of your attachments.
Aupmanyav, I would argue that anger is a very useful emotion. Through a mindful practice, one can see anger and put it to work for them without getting caught up in it. Anger unwatched is dangerous to everyone, but anger is energy and motivation to change the world around us. Ghandi was angry at the way the British were treating Indians, but he put that anger to use and transformed it into courage and determination.
You've obviously read the Gita quite thoroughly. I've read it as well as the Vedas and Upanishads, and I have to say that I've enjoyed the Vedas the most. Do you prefer the Gita to the Vedas or Upanishads?
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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Aupmanyav
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 309
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Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | Aupmanyav, I would argue that anger is a very useful emotion. Through a mindful practice, one can see anger and put it to work for them without getting caught up in it. Anger unwatched is dangerous to everyone, but anger is energy and motivation to change the world around us. Ghandi was angry at the way the British were treating Indians, but he put that anger to use and transformed it into courage and determination.
You've obviously read the Gita quite thoroughly. I've read it as well as the Vedas and Upanishads, and I have to say that I've enjoyed the Vedas the most. Do you prefer the Gita to the Vedas or Upanishads? |
Answer to the second paragraph - How do you compartmentalize wisdom? Is it not in Vedas, is it not in Geeta, is it not in Upanishads, or is it not in Ramacharit Manas or Bhagawat Purana? All of them say nearly the same things.
I do not think Gandhi was ever angry, not even with the British. They were all his good friends. You said 'You suffer when you refuse to accept the way things are', that is when you get angry. Accept things as they are. Change the world (if you so desire, I do not) without anger.
_________________
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman) |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12865
Local time: 1:17 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Aupmanyav wrote: | | CET wrote: | Aupmanyav, I would argue that anger is a very useful emotion. Through a mindful practice, one can see anger and put it to work for them without getting caught up in it. Anger unwatched is dangerous to everyone, but anger is energy and motivation to change the world around us. Ghandi was angry at the way the British were treating Indians, but he put that anger to use and transformed it into courage and determination.
You've obviously read the Gita quite thoroughly. I've read it as well as the Vedas and Upanishads, and I have to say that I've enjoyed the Vedas the most. Do you prefer the Gita to the Vedas or Upanishads? |
Answer to the second paragraph - How do you compartmentalize wisdom? Is it not in Vedas, is it not in Geeta, is it not in Upanishads, or is it not in Ramacharit Manas or Bhagawat Purana? All of them say nearly the same things. |
I enjoyed the Vedas (especially the Rig Veda) because they were non-dogmatic. They were not insisting upon answers, but rather more interested in asking questions. They seem to be written as a search for wisdom, which is the only way to find it. Wisdom cannot be taught, the best you can do is point to where it can be found.
The Gita, on the other hand, was less interested in asking questions, and more interested in giving answers. Many of those answers seemed like a double-edged sword. For example, commitment to one's work. Commitment to one's work is admirable, and I wish more people were committed. However, this commitment to work looked to me like a religious enforcement of the caste system. Just do your work happily, that is the only way to heaven. What a great way to keep untouchables in line, and living a miserable existence; keep them hoping for a better rebirth.
| Aupmanyav wrote: | | I do not think Gandhi was ever angry, not even with the British. They were all his good friends. You said 'You suffer when you refuse to accept the way things are', that is when you get angry. Accept things as they are. Change the world (if you so desire, I do not) without anger. |
Gandhi wasn't a generally angry man, one has to learn to let go of anger, but when reading his writings, I definitely get the impression that Gandhi had anger in him. He simply had the wisdom and compassion to put it to good use, instead of let it come out in a destructive manner. Anger is energy that can be put to good use. Thus, anger is a good thing, just don't be careless with it. 
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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Aupmanyav
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | Commitment to one's work is admirable, and I wish more people were committed. However, this commitment to work looked to me like a religious enforcement of the caste system. Just do your work happily, that is the only way to heaven. What a great way to keep untouchables in line, and living a miserable existence; keep them hoping for a better rebirth. |
Hindu books told this to all people. They asked brahmins, warrior clans (kshatriyas), and traders and agriculturists to disregard their poverty and do their given duty, i.e., teaching, studying scriptures for brahmins, fighting for the country to warriors, to trade with reasonable margins and provide good stuff to the traders. They said the same to shudras. The rich were few, the Kings and some of the traders. And these rich were given many responsibilities and were supposed to take care of the society.
The idea was that people should not turn materialistic and be satisfied with what they had. So even if the people were poor, they were trained by tradition to be happy. They were contented with little. Now, every one is after money, there is corruption, no guarantee that goods you get are genuine. And there is no peace in their heart. When you think of castes in hinduism, kindly do not forget this angle. It was a different life-style.
_________________
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman) |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting angle, albeit an easily corruptible one (as with any system, unfortunately).
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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chookrooter
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Joined: 07 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yeah caste system too, total bullshit and made my lamers , I as an ex-brahmin kid say what BULL! |
An ex-Brahmin? How does one leave one's caste? I thought it was mainly matter of birth. (OK,and marriage sometimes) So now you're saying you'd marry a Sudra?-and that ANY member of your family would still speak to you? |
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Aupmanyav
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 309
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Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | That's an interesting angle, albeit an easily corruptible one (as with any system, unfortunately). |
Stands corrupted now in many things (especially in politics, administration, police, and business), but still a lot survives.
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"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman) |
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GodisSanta
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Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| chookrooter wrote: | | Quote: | | Yeah caste system too, total bullshit and made my lamers , I as an ex-brahmin kid say what BULL! |
An ex-Brahmin? How does one leave one's caste? I thought it was mainly matter of birth. (OK,and marriage sometimes) So now you're saying you'd marry a Sudra?-and that ANY member of your family would still speak to you? |
Wow, this just shows how much you know about hinduism
I don't carry out my brahminical duties anymore, basically we gotta do yagna once a year and also do something called sandhyavandan every day 3 times a day, I ain't doin it anymore. Again, Indians , especially asian Indian Americans aren't neanderthals who disown their children because he/she married a sudhra, get real, we live in the 21st century , ok buddy? and no I am not married.
Go get some *real* knowledge about the religion before you start talking about it intelligently, ok buddy?
PEACE!
Last edited by GodisSanta on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:40 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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GodisSanta
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Joined: 17 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aupmanyav wrote: |
Yogasthah kuru karmani, sangam tyaktva, Dhananjaya;
Siddhi-asiddhyoh samo bhutva, samatvam yoga uchyate.
(Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment; considering success or failure as same, such equanimity is called yoga.
I believe in consciousness of Brahman, i.e., energy. This is what makes one photon not to arrive in a double-slit experiment, when the other photon is observed. I have not read Yoga-Vasishtha, I do not need to, I understand the mystery.
edited: as far as it can be known in the present age. |
whatever!
you will come to your senses when you realize that it doesn't work and yeah I read the vedas too, and BG and a whole lot of other scriptures and understood them properly as well and now am in a position where I question their authenticity.
Good luck to you and to your religion, and good night! |
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GodisSanta
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Joined: 17 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | GodisSanta, any enlightenment is only the beginning that leads to wisdom and a life of happiness. A life without wisdom is a life without happiness. There's a book you might find interesting, it's about enlightenment and what to do in the world afterwards, it's called, "After the Ecstasy is the laundry." My teacher constantly stresses that we have to take our practice into the world.
I'd like to redefine "attachment", because you're using it in a very loose way. That's understandable, because unfortunately it has different connotations for westerners, even though according to the dictionary it's the most accurate word. Attachment is the unwillingness to let go of something. You suffer when you refuse to accept the way things are, and wish for them to be different. Some things can be changed, and some cannot, either way, you have to accept reality for what it is, not what you wish it were. If your mother dies, and you wish she weren't, that is attachment, and it will only bring suffering into your life. Be careful of your attachments.
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Bah, anyone who works as a doctor knows what it is like to be a doctor, anyone who works a day in his life, knows how it is like , what do people like shankaracharya or buddha, who haven't worked atleast ONE DAY in their life, who lived by begging know about reality of human existance? Samething with any guru, what does he know? he is teaching you how to live, ha! he himself doesn't know what to do when everyone starts being "wise" haha, he would be out of his job.
First toil , first realize what life is, and also realize happiness is nothing more than an emotion as well, just like "anger" hahaha, All these people who sit in meditation and talk about "non attachment" don't really know what life is about. |
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